Just because ppl don't like a war or a country doesn't mean you can just give a new meaning to existing words and ideas. Israel isn't an apartheid state. Israel does not have a racial segregation implemented by law. There are Arab citizens—citizens with full, equal rights—in the Israeli parliament, the Knesset, as well as in the Israeli court system, including the Supreme Court.
South Africa didn't have one black African in their government, let alone many. Nor did they have any black South Africans with equal rights and citizenry whereas every one of the 2 million Palestinians in Israel are either citizens with the same full rights as any Jewish person or invited to become citizens if they choose. Same with the Christians and Druze. How many Jews are in the Palestinian government? How many Jews are welcome to live in Gaza or the West Bank? Zero and zero. Apartheid is just factually wrong.
According to the piece and many other accounts people living in the West Bank are living in an apartheid system. Get another job instead of being a professional shill for the Israeli govt.
People living in the West Bank are under their own autonomy through the Palestinian Authority, or Hamas in Gaza. There are areas in the West Bank where they share security with Israel to prevent Hamas from gaining a foothold. In Gaza, Hamas murdered the Fatah opposition there. If the argument is that Palestinians in the territories should have equal rights as the Arabs in Israel, then that would mean living under Israeli rule, which they don’t want. The 2 million Arabs in Israel have full rights and even serve on the Supreme Court. The continued occupation is due to extremist groups like Hamas, who oppose a two-state solution. When every peace deal is met with terrorism, it pushes Israel to the right, which is exactly what has happened. As long as Palestinians aim to destroy Israel and right-wing Israelis use that to maintain power, the conflict will persist. It takes two to tango. Most Israelis want nothing to do with occupying the West Bank and Gaza, but they have legitimate security concerns, e.g. Oct 7. And when you answer using terms like “shill”you are engaging in ad hominem and not with the argument. We need good faith discourse in this topic and show compassion for both the Palestinians and Israelis.
"People living in the West Bank are under their own autonomy through the Palestinian Authority, or Hamas in Gaza."
Not according to my reading on this- like Vox, this John Oliver piece. Pretty mainstream reporting. You seem to know a lot about what's going on there. Let's try these for starters:
Who controls electricity, water, the internet, and transit of goods into Gaza? For the West Bank?
Are Jewish Israeli residents of the occupied territories subject to the same checkpoints and delays as Palestinian residents of the occupied territories?
To apply for a permit to use land in the occupied areas, do Jewish Israelis and Palestinians there receive them at roughly the same rate?
When a Jewish Israeli resident of the occupied territories is accused of a crime, in what legal system is he tried? What is that legal system's conviction rate?
When a Palestinian resident of the occupied territories is accused of a crime, in what legal system is he tried? What is that legal system's conviction rate?
If a Jewish Israeli resident of the occupied territories leaves to live abroad for say 5 years, can she return to live in the occupied territories?
If a Palestinian resident of the occupied territories leaves to live abroad for say 5 years, can she return to live in the occupied territories?
If there is no apartheid, then the answer so the above should all be the same, between the Jewish Israeli and the Palestinian, would you agree?
There is exactly one Muslim in the Israeli Supreme Court. He makes up one-fifteenth of the Court and he took office in 2022. There are 10 Muslims in a 120 seat Knesset while Muslims make up 18 percent of Israel’s population. As a population they are very underrepresented.
And not every Palestinian living in the occupied territories wants Israel destroyed or for Jews to be killed. And I am certain there is probably some segment of the Jewish population of Israel that wants Palestinians to be wiped from the earth and to annex Gaza and the West Bank.
But I can understand the anger of many Palestinians when they are treated as an inhuman subspecies by the dominant power in the region.
>There are areas in the West Bank where they share security with Israel to prevent Hamas from gaining a foothold.
Defacto it is still a military occupation. Watch the video. Why does a child need to be taken from his parents for accidentally throwing a football across a checkpoint to stop Hamas? Why do soldiers need to point Their guns at any Palestinian with no restriction to stop Hamas? Why do Settlers need to be throwing down
beer bottles and bags of piss at palestinian community to Stop Hamas? There is a legitimate occupying presence in which Israelis displace Palestinians. This is not shared control to keep out terrorists.
>In Gaza, Hamas murdered the Fatah opposition there. If the argument is that Palestinians in the territories should have equal rights as the Arabs in Israel, then that would mean living under Israeli rule, which they don’t want.
It’s that they should have equal rights to the others living in the west bank. Israel, settlers who shouldn’t be there.
>The continued occupation is due to extremist groups like Hamas, who oppose a two-state solution.
The current Prime Minister of Israel, has opposed two-state solution for 20 years
>When every peace deal is met with terrorism, it pushes Israel to the right, which is exactly what has happened.
Israel to go to the right with terrorism, Palestinians go to Hamas with settlement expansion. One gets sympathy. The other doesn’t.
>As long as Palestinians aim to destroy Israel and right-wing Israelis use that to maintain power, the conflict will persist.
Israelis are starting that chain. If there were no settlements, 99% of Palestinians would stop fighting.
>It takes two to tango. Most Israelis want nothing to do with occupying the West Bank and Gaza,
Complete lie. Almost all support Annexation.
>but they have legitimate security concerns, e.g. Oct 7.
The status quo encourages october 7th to happen again. Israel couldve stopped it in the 80s
>And when you answer using terms like “shill”you are engaging in ad hominem and not with the argument. We need good faith discourse in this topic and show compassion for both the Palestinians and Israelis.
Palestinians want to live in peace. Israel wants their land and will stop at nothing to get it.
Just because Israel is not an apartheid state Doesn’t mean they are not perpetuating apartheid. I don’t Oliver ever mentions the idea that Israel is an apartheid state, but if you look at the benefits in housing (Settlers frequently squat and evict with no consequences) freedom of movement (checkpoints and there are areas of access only accessible to Israelis and tourists) and police treatment, Israel is perpetuating apartheid in the West Bank. Not Israel, as the West Bank is not Israel, but Israeli perpetuated apartheid in the West Bank. Also, Arabs of Israel lived under martial law until the 60s. And Hundreds of thousands of Jews live in Settlements in the West Bank, so saying ” How many Jews are welcome to live in Gaza or the West Bank? Zero and zero.”is factually wrong.
As a Jew with parents who escaped Europe in time to survive, with family that refused to leave, and perished. And growing up with family friends who had numbers tattooed on their skin. I have second hand knowledge of the atrocities that racism and antisemitism can inflict.
I admit that the Israeli Government has not reached the point of creating a holocaust. But I am appalled at the things it is doing to the Palestinians. I was heartbroken at the events that happened on October 7 and am just as heartbroken by the way the Israelis have been treating the people in Gaza.
The stuff that’s been going on in the West Bank is no different from the pogroms that Jews in Poland suffered under Russia. I was aware of a lot of the discrimination that Palestinians suffered but not to what extent. John Oliver’s deep dive into this issue is illuminating.
I am ashamed that my people went through all this, and are now inflicting it on others. And to the extent that I understand the meaning of Apartheid, this situation does seem to fall under that term.
Same. I don’t have the family background, but I feel so much grief and shame to see Netanyahu’s government mass murdering Palestinians, destroying ALL of the universities in Gaza, people’s neighborhoods, hospitals… it’s infernal.
With all due respect, I think you should do a deep dive on this issue for yourself. If you’re open to changing your mind, you might find that you got this one wrong. It's a complicated history, but apartheid is not the correct frame. There is a history behind why bad actors try to pin it on Israel along with other provably false claims, like genocide. However, you have to start from a position where you don't have a motivated reasoning to cast Israel as the villain. Not that they're blameless. It’s hard to accept that popular narratives could be mistaken, but just look at all the things Trump supporters believe. The left gets it wrong too, and sadly, increasingly so as you move farther left to the progressive activist class who are deluded by their own conspiracies.
I have done the deep dive, as you say. I’ve also been to Israel where I met a family cast out of their home in East Jerusalem. I don’t enjoy being angry about this. I don’t want to score any leftist capital. But beginning with the antisemitic Balfour agreement, the Palestinians have been expropriated and then punished for wanting to hang onto their land. If nations could go to hell, England’s role in this mess would be grounds for damnation — among so many other things.
Ah fuck, you had to wade into this issue. Bummer...i really dug you. I guess Pony Boy was right, nothing gold can stay. A bunch of Emmys don't turn a dumb comedian into an expert on global politics let alone the Middle East. If you ever want to have an actual intelligent conversation on this subject and find out why he's so totally wrong, feel free to reach out. I don't expect my inbox to blow up because most ppl have made up their minds without ever having an actual discussion on the issues in a non incendiary manner.
An English accent and glasses doesn't somehow turn an idiot into a genius. Go ahead John Oliver, cash in now.
You’re behind on the facts and public rhetoric has only recently started catching up with them . Read a couple of histories that aren’t written from a Zionist perspective. I have been reading histories, and it’s eye-opening. And unlike some leftists, I don’t enjoy being enraged about what’s going on. It’s shameful.
They have been overtaking Palestinian land for decades.
This was an awesome segment.
Just because ppl don't like a war or a country doesn't mean you can just give a new meaning to existing words and ideas. Israel isn't an apartheid state. Israel does not have a racial segregation implemented by law. There are Arab citizens—citizens with full, equal rights—in the Israeli parliament, the Knesset, as well as in the Israeli court system, including the Supreme Court.
South Africa didn't have one black African in their government, let alone many. Nor did they have any black South Africans with equal rights and citizenry whereas every one of the 2 million Palestinians in Israel are either citizens with the same full rights as any Jewish person or invited to become citizens if they choose. Same with the Christians and Druze. How many Jews are in the Palestinian government? How many Jews are welcome to live in Gaza or the West Bank? Zero and zero. Apartheid is just factually wrong.
South African Foreign Minister Says Israel 'Implementing Apartheid'
https://www.voanews.com/a/south-african-foreign-minister-says-israel-implementing-apartheid-/6677566.html
According to the piece and many other accounts people living in the West Bank are living in an apartheid system. Get another job instead of being a professional shill for the Israeli govt.
People living in the West Bank are under their own autonomy through the Palestinian Authority, or Hamas in Gaza. There are areas in the West Bank where they share security with Israel to prevent Hamas from gaining a foothold. In Gaza, Hamas murdered the Fatah opposition there. If the argument is that Palestinians in the territories should have equal rights as the Arabs in Israel, then that would mean living under Israeli rule, which they don’t want. The 2 million Arabs in Israel have full rights and even serve on the Supreme Court. The continued occupation is due to extremist groups like Hamas, who oppose a two-state solution. When every peace deal is met with terrorism, it pushes Israel to the right, which is exactly what has happened. As long as Palestinians aim to destroy Israel and right-wing Israelis use that to maintain power, the conflict will persist. It takes two to tango. Most Israelis want nothing to do with occupying the West Bank and Gaza, but they have legitimate security concerns, e.g. Oct 7. And when you answer using terms like “shill”you are engaging in ad hominem and not with the argument. We need good faith discourse in this topic and show compassion for both the Palestinians and Israelis.
"People living in the West Bank are under their own autonomy through the Palestinian Authority, or Hamas in Gaza."
Not according to my reading on this- like Vox, this John Oliver piece. Pretty mainstream reporting. You seem to know a lot about what's going on there. Let's try these for starters:
Who controls electricity, water, the internet, and transit of goods into Gaza? For the West Bank?
Are Jewish Israeli residents of the occupied territories subject to the same checkpoints and delays as Palestinian residents of the occupied territories?
To apply for a permit to use land in the occupied areas, do Jewish Israelis and Palestinians there receive them at roughly the same rate?
When a Jewish Israeli resident of the occupied territories is accused of a crime, in what legal system is he tried? What is that legal system's conviction rate?
When a Palestinian resident of the occupied territories is accused of a crime, in what legal system is he tried? What is that legal system's conviction rate?
If a Jewish Israeli resident of the occupied territories leaves to live abroad for say 5 years, can she return to live in the occupied territories?
If a Palestinian resident of the occupied territories leaves to live abroad for say 5 years, can she return to live in the occupied territories?
If there is no apartheid, then the answer so the above should all be the same, between the Jewish Israeli and the Palestinian, would you agree?
There is exactly one Muslim in the Israeli Supreme Court. He makes up one-fifteenth of the Court and he took office in 2022. There are 10 Muslims in a 120 seat Knesset while Muslims make up 18 percent of Israel’s population. As a population they are very underrepresented.
And not every Palestinian living in the occupied territories wants Israel destroyed or for Jews to be killed. And I am certain there is probably some segment of the Jewish population of Israel that wants Palestinians to be wiped from the earth and to annex Gaza and the West Bank.
But I can understand the anger of many Palestinians when they are treated as an inhuman subspecies by the dominant power in the region.
>There are areas in the West Bank where they share security with Israel to prevent Hamas from gaining a foothold.
Defacto it is still a military occupation. Watch the video. Why does a child need to be taken from his parents for accidentally throwing a football across a checkpoint to stop Hamas? Why do soldiers need to point Their guns at any Palestinian with no restriction to stop Hamas? Why do Settlers need to be throwing down
beer bottles and bags of piss at palestinian community to Stop Hamas? There is a legitimate occupying presence in which Israelis displace Palestinians. This is not shared control to keep out terrorists.
>In Gaza, Hamas murdered the Fatah opposition there. If the argument is that Palestinians in the territories should have equal rights as the Arabs in Israel, then that would mean living under Israeli rule, which they don’t want.
It’s that they should have equal rights to the others living in the west bank. Israel, settlers who shouldn’t be there.
>The continued occupation is due to extremist groups like Hamas, who oppose a two-state solution.
The current Prime Minister of Israel, has opposed two-state solution for 20 years
>When every peace deal is met with terrorism, it pushes Israel to the right, which is exactly what has happened.
Israel to go to the right with terrorism, Palestinians go to Hamas with settlement expansion. One gets sympathy. The other doesn’t.
>As long as Palestinians aim to destroy Israel and right-wing Israelis use that to maintain power, the conflict will persist.
Israelis are starting that chain. If there were no settlements, 99% of Palestinians would stop fighting.
>It takes two to tango. Most Israelis want nothing to do with occupying the West Bank and Gaza,
Complete lie. Almost all support Annexation.
>but they have legitimate security concerns, e.g. Oct 7.
The status quo encourages october 7th to happen again. Israel couldve stopped it in the 80s
>And when you answer using terms like “shill”you are engaging in ad hominem and not with the argument. We need good faith discourse in this topic and show compassion for both the Palestinians and Israelis.
Palestinians want to live in peace. Israel wants their land and will stop at nothing to get it.
Just because Israel is not an apartheid state Doesn’t mean they are not perpetuating apartheid. I don’t Oliver ever mentions the idea that Israel is an apartheid state, but if you look at the benefits in housing (Settlers frequently squat and evict with no consequences) freedom of movement (checkpoints and there are areas of access only accessible to Israelis and tourists) and police treatment, Israel is perpetuating apartheid in the West Bank. Not Israel, as the West Bank is not Israel, but Israeli perpetuated apartheid in the West Bank. Also, Arabs of Israel lived under martial law until the 60s. And Hundreds of thousands of Jews live in Settlements in the West Bank, so saying ” How many Jews are welcome to live in Gaza or the West Bank? Zero and zero.”is factually wrong.
As a Jew with parents who escaped Europe in time to survive, with family that refused to leave, and perished. And growing up with family friends who had numbers tattooed on their skin. I have second hand knowledge of the atrocities that racism and antisemitism can inflict.
I admit that the Israeli Government has not reached the point of creating a holocaust. But I am appalled at the things it is doing to the Palestinians. I was heartbroken at the events that happened on October 7 and am just as heartbroken by the way the Israelis have been treating the people in Gaza.
The stuff that’s been going on in the West Bank is no different from the pogroms that Jews in Poland suffered under Russia. I was aware of a lot of the discrimination that Palestinians suffered but not to what extent. John Oliver’s deep dive into this issue is illuminating.
I am ashamed that my people went through all this, and are now inflicting it on others. And to the extent that I understand the meaning of Apartheid, this situation does seem to fall under that term.
Same. I don’t have the family background, but I feel so much grief and shame to see Netanyahu’s government mass murdering Palestinians, destroying ALL of the universities in Gaza, people’s neighborhoods, hospitals… it’s infernal.
With all due respect, I think you should do a deep dive on this issue for yourself. If you’re open to changing your mind, you might find that you got this one wrong. It's a complicated history, but apartheid is not the correct frame. There is a history behind why bad actors try to pin it on Israel along with other provably false claims, like genocide. However, you have to start from a position where you don't have a motivated reasoning to cast Israel as the villain. Not that they're blameless. It’s hard to accept that popular narratives could be mistaken, but just look at all the things Trump supporters believe. The left gets it wrong too, and sadly, increasingly so as you move farther left to the progressive activist class who are deluded by their own conspiracies.
I have done the deep dive, as you say. I’ve also been to Israel where I met a family cast out of their home in East Jerusalem. I don’t enjoy being angry about this. I don’t want to score any leftist capital. But beginning with the antisemitic Balfour agreement, the Palestinians have been expropriated and then punished for wanting to hang onto their land. If nations could go to hell, England’s role in this mess would be grounds for damnation — among so many other things.
Ah fuck, you had to wade into this issue. Bummer...i really dug you. I guess Pony Boy was right, nothing gold can stay. A bunch of Emmys don't turn a dumb comedian into an expert on global politics let alone the Middle East. If you ever want to have an actual intelligent conversation on this subject and find out why he's so totally wrong, feel free to reach out. I don't expect my inbox to blow up because most ppl have made up their minds without ever having an actual discussion on the issues in a non incendiary manner.
An English accent and glasses doesn't somehow turn an idiot into a genius. Go ahead John Oliver, cash in now.
You should watch the video, and read the article I wrote a few months ago, before claiming they're wrong.
You’re behind on the facts and public rhetoric has only recently started catching up with them . Read a couple of histories that aren’t written from a Zionist perspective. I have been reading histories, and it’s eye-opening. And unlike some leftists, I don’t enjoy being enraged about what’s going on. It’s shameful.